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Path: bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!faqserv From: elharo@shock.njit.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.wanted,misc.forsale.computers.mac,comp.answers,misc.answers,news.answers Subject: Macintosh for sale frequently asked questions (FAQ) Supersedes: <macintosh/wanted-faq_764163686@rtfm.mit.edu> Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.wanted Date: 3 Apr 1994 16:43:34 GMT Organization: Department of Mathematics, NJIT Lines: 1143 Approved: news-answers-request@mit.edu Expires: 1 May 1994 16:39:37 GMT Message-ID: <macintosh/wanted-faq_765391177@rtfm.mit.edu> References: <macintosh/general-faq_765391177@rtfm.mit.edu> Reply-To: elharo@shock.njit.edu (Elliotte Harold) NNTP-Posting-Host: bloom-picayune.mit.edu Summary: This document answers a number of the most frequently asked questions about Macintoshes on Usenet. To avoid wasting bandwidth and as a matter of politeness please familiarize yourself with this document BEFORE posting. Keywords: FAQ, sale, for sale, Macintosh, Mac, macintosh, mac X-Last-Updated: 1994/04/01 Originator: faqserv@bloom-picayune.MIT.EDU Xref: bloom-beacon.mit.edu comp.sys.mac.wanted:25343 misc.forsale.computers.mac:22252 comp.answers:4421 misc.answers:525 news.answers:17283 Archive-name: macintosh/wanted-faq Version: 2.2.5 Last-modified: April 1, 1994 Buying and Selling Macintosh Computers, Software and Peripherals ================================================================ comp.sys.mac.faq, part 5: comp.sys.mac.wanted & misc.forsale.computers.mac Copyright 1993,1994 by Elliotte Harold Archive-name: macintosh/wanted-faq Version: 2.2.5 Last-modified: April 1, 1994 What's new in version 2.2.5: ---------------------------- 4.1: When Should I buy a new Mac? Macrotime. If you have a 68030 Mac now is a good time to upgrade. Table of Contents ------------------------------------------------------------------- I. Buying and Selling Used Equipment 1. Should I buy/sell on Usenet? 2. Where should I buy/sell used equipment? 3. I've decided to completely ignore your excellent advice and post my ad anyway. What should I do? 4. I've decided to completely ignore your excellent advice and buy something offered for sale on the net anyway. How can I avoid being ripped off? II. Fair Market Value 1. How much is my computer worth? 2. What is used software worth? 3. Going prices? III. Where Should I Buy a New Mac? 1. Authorized Dealers 2. VAR's 3. Superstores 4. Performas 5. Educational Dealers 6. Direct From Apple 7. Auctions 8. Does anyone know a dealer in New York City? 9. New Equipment Prices IV. When Should I buy a new Mac? 1. Macrotime 2. Microtime 3. When will I get my Mac? V. How Should I Buy a New Mac? 1. Know what you want 2. The dealer needs to sell you a mac more than you need to buy one 3. Have a competitor's ad handy 4. Cash on delivery 5. The sales tax game 6. Leasing 7. Be nice to the salesperson. VI. The Gray Market and Mail Order 1. What is the gray market? 2. Are gray market Macs covered by Apple warranties? 3. Does anyone know a good mail-order company? ADMINISTRIVIA ============= Copyright --------- This work is Copyright 1993, 1994 by Elliotte M. Harold. Permission is hereby granted to transmit and store this document as part of an unedited collection of any newsgroup to which it is posted by myself. I also grant permission to distribute unmodified copies of this document online via bulletin boards, online services, and other providers of electronic communications provided that no fees in excess of normal online charges are required for such distribution; i.e. if the FAQ is available on a system, it must be available at the minimum charge for accessing the system. For instance you may post it to most BBS's that charge either a flat monthly fee or a per hour rate. However if there is an extra charge for downloading files over what is charged per normal access, either per hour, per kilobyte, or per month, then the FAQ may not be posted to that system without my explicit, prior permission. Portions of this document may be extracted and quoted free of charge and without necessity of citation in normal online communication provided only that said quotes are not represented as the correspondent's original work. Permission for quotation of this document in edited, online communication (such as the Info-Mac Digest and TidBITS) is given subject to normal citation procedures (i.e. you have to say where you got it). If you wish to republish this FAQ in a modified form or in a non-electronic medium, please contact me with specific details. I'm normally receptive to non-profits that wish to redistribute it at no charge, and to anyone who is willing to make reasonable remunerative arrangements for non-exclusive republication rights. Disclaimer ---------- I do my best to ensure that information contained in this document is current and accurate, but I can accept no responsibility for actions resulting from information contained herein. This document is provided as is and with no warranty of any kind. Corrections and suggestions should be addressed to elharo@shock.njit.edu. Trademarks ---------- Apple, Macintosh, LaserWriter, ImageWriter, Finder, HyperCard and MultiFinder are registered trademarks and PowerBook is a trademark of Apple Computer, Inc. Linotronic is a registered trademark of Linotype-Hell AG, Inc. PostScript is a registered trademark and Illustrator and Photoshop are trademarks of Adobe Systems, Inc. Microsoft is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. PageMaker is a registered trademark of Aldus Corp. AutoDoubler and DiskDoubler are trademarks of Fifth Generation Systems, Inc. StuffIt and StuffIt Deluxe are trademarks of Raymond Lau and Aladdin Systems, Inc. All other tradenames are trademarks of their respective manufacturers. How to Retrieve the Entire FAQ ------------------------------ This is the FIFTH part of this FAQ. The first part is also posted to this newsgroup under the subject heading "Introductory Macintosh frequently asked questions (FAQ)" and includes a complete table of contents for the entire document as well as information on where to post, ftp, file decompression, trouble-shooting, and preventive maintenance. The second, third and fourth parts are posted every two weeks in comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.misc and comp.sys.mac.apps respectively . Please familiarize yourself with all five sections of this document before posting. All pieces are available for anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu [18.70.0.209] in the directory pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh. Except for the introductory FAQ which appears in multiple newsgroups and is stored as general-faq, the name of each file has the format of the last part of the group name followed by "-faq", e.g. the FAQ for comp.sys.mac.system is stored as system-faq and the FAQ for comp.sys.mac.misc is stored as misc-faq. You can also have these files mailed to you by sending an E-mail message to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the line: send pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh/"name" in the body text where "name" is the name of the file you want as specified above (e.g. general-faq). You can also send this server a message with the subject "help" for more detailed instructions. ======================================== BUYING AND SELLING USED EQUIPMENT (1.0) ======================================== SHOULD I BUY OR SELL ON USENET? (1.1) -------------------------------------- No, you should not. Usenet is a medium by which information is broadcast to millions of different people around the world. It's almost certain that noone in Singapore wants to buy a Canadian Classic 4/40, even at a really great price. Import laws, the cost of international shipping and a host of other concerns pose too big an obstacle to the sale of small quantities of used equipment. Even within one country geographical distances often pose a severe obstacle to the sale of used goods. There is simply too great a chance of either seller or buyer being ripped off in a long-distance transaction via non-payment, non-delivery, or non-usable equipment. WHERE SHOULD I BUY/SELL USED EQUIPMENT? (1.2) ---------------------------------------------- LOCAL bulletin boards, both of the electronic and paper varieties, are a far better medium for the sale of used hardware, software, and other tangible quantities. Some Usenet sites and local areas have local for sale newsgroups (e.g. nj.forsale here in New Jersey) which are more appropriate for classified advertising than netwide groups like comp.sys.mac.wanted. In large cities and college towns you should reach just as many potential buyers by advertising locally as by posting to the net. Advertising locally gives both the seller and the buyer the BIG advantage of being able to meet to test the system, verify that what is being offered is in fact what is available, and avoiding the hassle of shipping. The chance of being ripped off either through non-payment or non-delivery is GREATLY reduced by advertising and selling locally. I WANT TO POST MY AD ANYWAY. WHAT SHOULD I DO? (1.3) ------------------------------------------------------ First see section 2.0 below to try and decide on a reasonable price. Be prepared for flames if your price is too far out of line including follow-up posts warning potential buyers that you are trying to rip them off. You may just want to state "best offer." That way you aren't responsible if someone else misvalues your equipment. If an offer does come in that meets your minimum price, you can sell it. If there are no reasonable offers, you don't have to sell. Be sure to include a descriptive subject line in your post. For Sale, Macintosh For Sale, and Macintosh Software For Sale are all HORRIBLE subject lines. Better subject lines would be SE/30 4/40, $695 or best offer or Photoshop 2.5, unopened, $250. Then include a more detailed description in the body of the post. Also be sure to state whether or not you'll pay shipping. (It's much easier to sell an item if you agree to pay shipping.) You should post your notice in comp.sys.mac.wanted and misc.forsale.computers.mac ONLY. Posting a for sale ad to comp.sys.mac.misc is guaranteed flame-bait, even more so if your offer is over-priced. You should also restrict the distribution of your message to as local an area as possible. Ask your local news administrator for help if you don't know how to do this. Finally if you've sold your item please don't post a message saying the item has been sold. Most of us don't care. If you are getting a lot of offers and want to take the item off the market, it's better to cancel the original message. The bandwidth cost is the same, but you'll save a lot of people the trouble of reading two now-pointless messages from you. Again you may need to ask your local news administrator how to do this. HOW CAN I AVOID BEING RIPPED OFF WHEN I BUY SOMETHING FROM THE NET? (1.4) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can't, which is the single biggest reason I recommend against buying and selling on Usenet. The most effective precaution you can take is to insist on check-on-delivery. That way you give the seller nothing until something is delivered, and you can stop payment on the check if what is delivered is not what was advertised. This may cost a few dollars more, but the added security is more than worth it. NEVER pay in advance for used goods from an unknown shipper. You may also want to insist on a work address and phone number for the seller. This is especially effective if the forsale post originates from a company account. The threat of being harassed at work is more effective than the threat of legal action against some unscrupulous individuals who realize you probably won't sue but may complain to their boss. Even when dealing with completely honest individuals it's still much easier to haggle over terms and work out shipping arrangements via phone than through protracted E-mail exchanges. ======================== FAIR MARKET VALUE (2.0) ======================== HOW MUCH IS MY USED HARDWARE WORTH? (2.1) ------------------------------------------ Make your lowest estimate of the resale value of your hardware taking into account current prices on new hardware of equivalent capability. Then divide that estimate by two. The price you now have is somewhere above the fair market value of your hardware. Almost everyone severely overestimates the value of their equipment. I've seen friendships and business relationships destroyed once buyers realized how badly they'd been taken EVEN THOUGH THE SELLERS DID NOT INTENTIONALLY MISLEAD THE BUYERS. Computers are like cars in that they lose 30% of their value as soon as you walk out of the dealer's showroom with one. They are unlike cars in that they lose more value when new models are released irregardless of the condition or age of the previous model. Unlike cars newer models of computer really are better. High-end systems retain their value longer. My 5/45 SE/30, a high-end system when I bought it four years ago, is still barely salable today. Had I purchased a low-end Plus instead it would at most be worth $100 for parts. WHAT IS USED SOFTWARE WORTH? (2.2) ----------------------------------- Almost nothing. It's certainly worth less than the cost of distributing a for sale message around the world on Usenet. If the software is the current version AND includes all original master disks and manuals AND a notarized letter transferring ownership from the original purchaser to the new owner, then it's worth about half of the current mail-order or educational discount price, whichever is lower. Especially note that software left on a hard disk when a computer is sold adds NOTHING to the value of the system. The buyer can pirate payware and download shareware just as easily as the seller. NO REALLY, HOW MUCH IS MY SYSTEM WORTH? (2.3) ---------------------------------------------- I'll give a few numbers I consider current as of late 1993. Unlike the completely ridiculous prices you'll find in the AmCo index these values shouldn't leave the buyer feeling ripped off. As a seller you can often get higher prices than these, but as a buyer these represent what you should be able to bargain somebody down to. Asking prices and configurations vary WILDLY so haggle and don't be afraid to wait for a better deal if you don't like what someone is offering. When trying to determine reasonable prices for discontinued equipment I consider several factors. First I set a floor for a given model based on what used equipment dealers like Sun Remarketing are willing to pay for inventory and by what repair shops will pay for parts. Then I set a ceiling based on two thirds of typical prices for a model at used computer dealers. Used computer dealers can charge more than individuals because they do offer warranties that provide some protection against buying a lemon. Nonetheless the Macintosh market moves so fast that dealers of used equipment sometimes aren't able to unload inventory before the price of equivalent new models drops below what they paid for inventory. The existence of many of these dealers is marginal and depends heavily on customers who assume that new equipment is more expensive than old and that mail order is cheaper than buying from the local dealer, neither of which is necessarily true. Thus I also considered the prices of equivalent and better new machines as well. The real kicker here is the LC 475 (a.k.a. Quadra 605), a 25 MHz 68LC040 (no FPU) with 14" basic color monitor, 4 megs RAM, 80 megabyte hard disk, keyboard and a 12 month warranty for about $1200 new. Very few used Macs currently being offered for sale have as much horsepower as this machine though some may have additional features such as a better monitor or more slots. However very few people buying used equipment need a better monitor or more than one expansion slot. Thus as a buyer or a seller ask yourself what a machine is worth compared to an LC 475. Within this range I try to set the suggested price in the ballpark of the lowest asking price I've seen on Usenet or elsewhere. Finally I adjust the prices a little between models to make sure that equivalently capable used Macs cost about the same amount. My ultimate goal is to ensure that a buyer who pays the price listed here does not feel cheated in a transaction, either because they see the Mac they just bought for $1000 advertised for $500 two weeks later or because they realize they could have bought a better Mac new for the same money. Both of these happen far too frequently. These prices are mainly for discontinued models. For models that are still available new, see the list in question 3.8. Figure the same system used is worth about 64% of that price plus an extra half percent for every month of warranty coverage left. For compact Macs all prices include a keyboard and mouse. Take $100 off the price if there's no keyboard or mouse or both. Otherwise the prices are just for the base CPU with internal hard drive and RAM. Most offers to sell do include a monitor, keyboard and mouse and some room for haggling so asking prices will typically be somewhat higher. RAM and hard drive configurations can vary greatly. I've tried to include the high and low ends as well as the configurations you're most likely to run across. Use your best judgment when interpolating and extrapolating to other models. Mac 128 $50 Mac 512 $60 Mac 512ke $75 Mac Plus 1/0 $100 Mac Plus 4/0 $150 SE 1/0 $150 SE 1/20 $200 SE 4/0 $200 SE 4/40 $275 SE/30 1/0 $300 SE/30 4/40 $500 SE/30 5/80 $550 SE/30 8/80 $600 Classic 4/40 $275 Classic 4/80 $325 LC 4/40 $300 LC 4/80 $350 LC 8/80 $400 LC II 4/40 $400 LC II 4/80 $450 LC II 8/80 $500 Mac II 0/0 $300 Mac II 0/0/FDHD $350 Mac II 8/40 $450 Mac II 4/105/FDHD $550 Mac IIx 0/0 $400 Mac IIx 8/80 $675 Mac IIci 0/0 $575 Mac IIci 8/80 $725 Mac IIcx 0/0 $350 Mac IIsi 2/0 $425 Mac IIsi 3/40 $520 Mac IIsi 5/80 $575 Mac IIsi 5/120/FPU $600 Mac IIfx 0/0 $1100 Mac Portable 1/40 $350 Mac Portable 4/40 $400 Mac Portable 4/80/Backlit $450 Quadra 700 4/0 $700 Quadra 700 4/80 $900 Quadra 700 8/105 $1100 Quadra 900 4/0 $1200 Quadra 900 4/160 $1500 PowerBook 100 2/20 $500 PowerBook 100 4/40 $575 PowerBook 140 2/20 $600 PowerBook 140 4/40 $675 PowerBook 140 4/120 $850 PowerBook 145 4/40 $750 PowerBook 160 2/20 $800 PowerBook 160 4/40 $900 PowerBook 170 4/40 $1100 PowerBook 170 4/80 $1175 PowerBook 170 8/40/modem $1200 PowerBook 170 4/120 $1265 ImageWriter $50 ImageWriter II $75 ImageWriter LQ $100 StyleWriter $135 Personal Laserwriter SC $200 Personal Laserwriter LS $235 Personal Laserwriter NT $285 Personal Laserwriter NTR $335 LaserWriter IISC $300 LaserWriter IINT $500 LaserWriter IINTX $600 LaserWriter IIf $735 LaserWriter IIg $995 Apple CDSC $75 Apple CD-150 $100 (New at MacWarehouse for $150) Apple Standard Keyboard $50 Apple Extended Keyboard $85 Apple 12" B/W Monitor $115 Apple 13" HiRes Color $300 Apple Portrait Display $265 ==================================== WHERE SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (3.0) ==================================== AUTHORIZED DEALERS (3.1) ------------------------- Hard as it may be to believe Apple authorized dealers are normally the most reliable, best stocked, and cheapest source of Apple brand equipment. You are unlikely to do better by buying at educational discount, at a superstore, or by mail-order (though walking in with the price list from a local university or superstore is often the quickest way to cut through a lot of haggling). VAR'S (3.2) ------------ I include Value-Added Resellers (VAR's for short) only for the sake of completeness. These dealers custom configure Macintoshes for specific purposes and sell them at a premium price. Generally they are uninterested in single CPU, retail sales. Very few will even attempt to match rock bottom prices. However they are about the only part of the dealer channel that provides significant after-sale support to their customers. SUPERSTORES (3.3) ------------------ Superstores like CompUSA are fairly hassle-free since they won't do any haggling except on the largest orders. They should be able to match a competitor's advertised price though you may need to show them an ad with the better price first. On the other hand any authorized dealer should almost certainly be able to beat a superstore price. After all, noone puts their best price in an ad for all their competitors to see. The best use for a superstore is to tell salespeople at authorized dealers what prices they need to beat to get your business. PERFORMAS (3.4) ---------------- At various times Apple repackages different models of LC's, Classics and Quadra's with slightly different software and sells them as Performa's through consumer outlets like Sears. With one exception (the Performa 600) these have all been virtually identical to one model or another of the Macs sold at authorized dealers except for the bundled software. Most of the time the regular model is cheaper than the equivalent Performa, especially if you don't want the bundled software; but this isn't always true so you should double-check the price of a Performa compared to the model you want to buy. Finally most Performa dealers will sell Macs over the phone to customers they've never met. So if you can't find what you want locally, a Performa may be a reasonable choice. EDUCATIONAL DEALERS (3.5) -------------------------- The nicest thing about campus computer stores is that they're willing to distribute firm price lists with reasonable prices so there's no need to haggle. Also since they typically don't work on commission they're much more honest and open than the average authorized dealer. The worst thing about campus computer stores is that educational dealers are normally the last part of the channel to get product. If you order a Mac that isn't in stock through an educational dealer, plan on waiting at least two months for delivery. However educational prices haven't fallen at the same rate as have prices in other channels over the last two years (mainly because educational prices were much lower to start with) so larger authorized dealers should now be able to match or beat educational prices. One of the most effective tactics for dealing with an authorized dealer that cuts through a lot of hassle and haggling is walking in with a copy of a local university price list and asking "Can you do better?" DIRECT FROM APPLE (3.6) ------------------------ Apple began selling a limited number of models directly about a year ago. However direct prices really aren't competitive with authorized dealer prices. In some cases Apple even tries to sell at list price. Nonetheless if you'd like a catalog you can get one by calling 1(800)795-1000. AUCTIONS (3.7) --------------- Apple has recently begun to dump overstocked equipment at various auctions around the country. Most of the time this is NOT a good way to get a good deal on a new Mac. Once auctioneers fees (5%) are factored in prices tend to be higher than you'd pay at a dealer for newer, better models. However some deals are possible if you know what you want and how much its worth. Here are a few rules of thumb for shopping at auction: 1. Get a list of the merchandise offered for sale. Be sure to preview the items before the auction. Auction configurations are not always the same as dealer configurations. Check whether the models you're interested in are new or demos and what their warranty status is. New equipment should have a full one year warranty. 2. Make a list of street prices and prices you're willing to pay for everything you might bid on. The sections on new and used equipment prices in this FAQ can be of great help here. 3. Don't get caught up in the excitement of the auction. NEVER bid more than you planned on for any piece. 4. Powerbooks almost always sell for more than their street price. Don't even bother attending an auction if you only want a PowerBook. DOES ANYONE KNOW A DEALER IN NEW YORK CITY? (3.8) -------------------------------------------------- If you're planning a trip to New York, you may want to do a little Mac shopping on the side. New York City is one of the most competitive Mac markets in the country, and the prices here reflect it. For the current ads of most NYC dealers pick up a copy of the city edition of Tuesday's New York Times. Below I list several dealers you may want to check out. PCSI 104 East 23rd Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues (212) 255-7600 I've dealt with PCSI several times over the last few years and they've always been friendly, honest, and had competitive prices. MPC 4 West 20th Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues (212) 463-8585 I worked at MPC for about a year a few years back. Since MPC is also a full-service service bureau as well as being an authorized dealer, they're by far the most technically knowledgable dealership in NYC. The prices aren't bad either. J&R Computer World 15 Park Row NY NY 10038 (212) 238-9000 This is New York City's superstore. Like most superstores there's limited haggling, not particularly knowledgable salespeople, and decent prices; but you can often do better by going to one of the other dealers and saying "J&R has it for $2000. Can you beat that?" NEW EQUIPMENT PRICES (3.9) --------------------------- What follows are mostly maximum prices you should expect to pay for current Apple models in standard configurations. You should have no trouble getting these prices at any Apple reseller in the United States with a little haggling. In competitive markets or if you're buying several Macs at once, you may be able to get up to 10% or more off these prices. If you do manage to significantly beat these prices on a single Mac purchase I'd like to hear about it so I can keep this list current. Most dealers are unlikely to stock all configurations listed here. You'll generally get a better price if you order what's in stock (not to mention you'll get it quicker.) Finally be sure to check the Last modified date at the top of this file. Apple has been known to drop prices faster than I can post FAQ lists. For non-Apple equipment prices just scan the back pages of any issue of MacWorld or MacUser. Since most companies besides Apple are willing to authorize mail-order dealers, the mail-order prices on Radius monitors, GCC printers, Quantum Hard Drives and other third party peripherals should be fairly close to the minimum you can expect to for such items. Classic II 2/40 $600 Classic II 4/80 $700 Color Classic 4/80 $815 LC III 4/80 $700 LC III 4/160 $805 LC 475 4/80 (aka Quadra 605) $750 LC 475 8/160 $1050 LC 520 5/80/CD $1560 LC 520 8/160/CD $1790 LC 550 4/160 $1195 LC 575 5/160/CD $1650 Mac TV 5/160/CD $1995 IIvx 4/80 $750 IIvx 5/80/CD $1050 IIvx 4/230 $950 IIvx 4/230/CD $1250 Centris 610 4/80 $800 Centris 610 8/230 $1200 Centris 610 8/230/CD $1450 Centris 650 8/230 $1500 Centris 650 8/230/CD $1800 Quadra 610 8/160 $1200 Quadra 610 8/160/DOS $1500 Quadra 610 8/230 $1400 Quadra 610 8/230/CD $1680 Quadra 650 8/230 $1900 Quadra 650 8/500 $2600 Quadra 650 16/230 $2400 Quadra 650 8/230/CD $2200 Quadra 650 8/500/CD $2600 Quadra 660av 8/80 $1300 Quadra 660av 8/230 $1600 Quadra 660av 8/230/CD $1795 Quadra 660av 8/500 $2000 Quadra 660av 8/500/CD $2300 Quadra 800 8/230 $2200 Quadra 800 8/500 $2700 Quadra 800 8/500/CD $3000 Quadra 800 8/1000 $3700 Quadra 840av 8/230 $2800 Quadra 840av 8/230/CD $2995 Quadra 840av 8/500 $3350 Quadra 840av 16/500 $3600 Quadra 840av 16/500/CD $3800 Quadra 840av 16/1000/CD $4400 Quadra 950 8/0 $2800 Quadra 950 8/230 $3100 Quadra 950 8/400 $3250 Quadra 950 8/500 $3500 Quadra 950 16/1000 $4300 PowerMac 6100 8/160 $1600 PowerMac 6100 8/250/CD $1995 PowerMac 6100 16/250 $2200 PowerMac 6100AV 8/250/CD $2300 PowerMac 7100 8/250 $2650 PowerMac 7100 8/250/CD $2895 PowerMac 7100 16/250 $3095 PowerMac 7100AV 8/500/CD $3700 PowerMac 8100 8/250 $3795 PowerMac 8100 8/250/CD $3999 PowerMac 8100 16/500 $4695 PowerMac 8100AV 16/500/CD $4999 PowerMac 8100 16/1000/CD $5995 PowerBook 145b 4/40 $995 PowerBook 145b 4/80 $1130 PowerBook 165 4/80 $1495 PowerBook 165 4/160 $1795 PowerBook 165 4/160/Modem $1995 PowerBook 165c 4/80 $1490 PowerBook 165c 4/120 $1710 PowerBook 165c 4/120/Modem $1910 PowerBook 180 4/80 $1950 PowerBook 180 4/120 $2170 PowerBook 180 4/120/Modem $2370 PowerBook 180c 4/80 $2250 PowerBook 180c 4/160 $2460 PowerBook 180c 4/160/Modem $2670 Duo 210 4/80 $795 Duo 230 4/80 $995 Duo 230 4/120 $1095 Duo 230 4/120/Modem $1195 Duo 250 4/200 $1850 Duo 250 12/200/Modem $2300 Duo 270c 4/240 $2500 Duo 270c 12/240/Modem $2995 Duo Dock 512K VRAM $625 Duo Dock 1/230/FPU $980 Duo Minidock $380 StyleWriter II $250 StyleWriter Portable $375 Color StyleWriter Pro $595 ImageWriter II $375 Personal LaserWriter 300 $450 LaserWriter Select 300 $500 LaserWriter Select 310 $650 LaserWriter Select 320 $815 LaserWriter Select 360 $1395 LaserWriter Pro 600 $1695 LaserWriter Pro 630 $1795 LaserWriter Pro 810 $4100 Apple Color Printer $430 12" Monochrome Monitor $155 Apple Basic Color Monitor $195 Apple Color Plus 14" Display $285 Macintosh 14" Hi-Res Display $450 AudioVision 14" RGB Display $600 Macintosh 16" Color Display $850 Apple CD-300 $340 Apple Keyboard II $70 Extended Keyboard $150 Adjustable Keyboard $125 One-Scanner $660 Color One-Scanner $880 Express Modem $275 GeoPort Adapter $99 Power-CD $179 AppleCD Multimedia Kit $599 DOS Compatibility Card $395 =================================== WHEN SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (4.0) =================================== MACROTIME (4.1) ---------------- Apple releases new models of Macs about every three months. The next major release will probably be on April 25 when Apple will introduce the "Blackbird" 680LC40 PowerBooks. Sometime in the late summer or early fall Apple will introduce a low-cost 68040 AV Mac, PowerPC WorkGroup servers and lower prices on Quadras. In January of 1995 the first PowerPC 603 PowerBooks and low cost LC model PowerMacs should become available. As usual all new models will be faster and cheaper than the models they replace. Prices on models being replaced often drop by 15-20% either shortly before or after the introduction of new models. In particular the introduction of a rebate program is a sure sign that Apple is clearing out old stock in preparation for the introduction of new models. If you don't already have a desktop Mac or a PowerBook, then by all means buy now. The time you gain with your Mac by buying now should immensely outweigh the money savings of buying later. Furthermore if your current Mac has a 68030 or older CPU it's time to think about moving to a PowerPC. You'll see a speed up in all your current software and even more speed in native software down the road. I advise against buying any more 68000 series Macs though. The future lies with the PowerPC, not with the 68040 and 68030 models available now; and if you buy one of those now, it's going to become obsolete and slow even faster than Macs have done in the past. (The Mac doesn't really become slower. It's the software that gets more bloated and less efficient, but you get the idea. When I recently complained about the speed of some software I was beta-testing, the programmer told me it seemed fine on his low-end Mac, a IIci that's twice as fast as my SE/30. It took four years for my high-end SE/30 to become something not worth programmers' time to worry about. Today's high-end Quadra 800's and 900's should make that same journey in less than half that time.) If you already own a 68040 Mac, you should probably wait a few months before upgrading to a PowerMac. At the moment there isn't much native software available for the PowerMacs so you won't see much of a performance boost from a new machine. By the time enough native software is available to make the transition worthwhile (probably by the end of the summer) PowerMac street prices will have dropped from $200-$500 depending on the model. Finally in a world where even the low end desktop Macs are 25MHz 68040's the current crop of PowerBooks are woefully under powered. If you want a PowerBook, especially one you intend to use as a primary Mac, I'd wait for a 68040 or even a PPC 603 PowerBook. In the meantime perhaps you can satisfy your techno-lust with an external hard drive or a printer or something else you can transfer to a new Mac later. MICROTIME (4.2) ---------------- If you're buying a low end home system from a high end corporate dealer and you want demos or a lot of questions answered, shop on the weekend. During the week salespeople tend to be busy with much larger sales and aren't very interested in selling one 4/80 Classic II. On the weekends, however, especially on Sundays, salespeople are often twiddling their thumbs waiting for any customer at all. On the other hand if you know exactly what you want and how much you want to pay for it, shop in the middle of a weekday, preferably the day or two after the ads come out in the local papers. During busy times salespeople are much more inclined to give in to your $750 cash offer for a 4/80 Classic II just to get you out of their hair. WHEN WILL I GET MY MAC? (4.3) ------------------------------ I've never heard of a delivery taking more than a year, and most Macs ordered through whatever channels arrive within six months. However I strongly recommend not putting more than a one dollar deposit on any Mac purchase and making certain that you can back out of a purchase at any time up until the goods are actually delivered and signed for. It's not uncommon for Apple to lower prices or deliver an improved model at lower cost before all orders for older models have been filled. This is especially common for orders placed through the educational channel. For hot models like the Quadra 605 you may want to place orders at several dealers to have a reasonable chance of getting what you want when you want it. ================================== HOW SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (5.0) ================================== KNOW WHAT YOU WANT (5.1) ------------------------- When you walk into the store where you're thinking about buying for the first time, you should know exactly what you need and the exact maximum price you will pay for that equipment. Never go in to "discuss" your needs with a salesperson. Remember they are there to sell you a computer, not to help you out. If you really want to discuss your needs, talk to a knowledgable friend or even hire a freelancer who specializes in Macintosh (not PC!) pre-purchase consulting. At least that way you're talking to some one who works for you rather than the store. You probably want to ask the salesperson what price they can give you on the system you want before you tell them what price you want to pay. I have occasionally been surprised by a salesperson who initially offered me a system at a price several hundred dollars lower than the price I expected to pay. This is more common on high end systems like 840av's than on low end ones like Classics since there's still more money for a dealer in a 3% markup on an 840av than in a 10% markup on a Classic. Buy the base CPU with the minimum amount of RAM it ships with and possibly an internal Apple hard disk, an external monitor, and maybe an Apple printer from your authorized dealer, nothing else. Many dealers have excellent prices on CPU's but jack up the price on peripherals to near list. They offer very good prices on the base configurations of Macintosh and then pile on the extras, $200 for a modem, $50 for a surge supressor, $100 a megabyte for RAM. Guess where their profit's coming from. Some dealers don't even bother to put individual prices on your sales order, just a package price, so you won't realize how much they're ripping you off on the peripherals. Almost no Authorized Apple Dealer is able to beat mail-order or unauthorized dealer prices on non-Apple peripherals. All other non-Apple brand equipment should be purchased from a dealer who specializes in peripherals, possibly through mail order. And never, ever, buy software from an authorized Apple dealer. Software can always be had mail order for about half the price you'd pay an Apple dealer. Many stores offer to set-up and test your system for you. Typical fees range from $50 to $100 and include hard disk initialization, system software installation, burn-in time, and installation of one software package (normally HyperCard Player unless you request otherwise in writing on the sales order). In other words they're trying to get an extra $75 out of your pocket to make sure that the computer they're selling you works. This is a crock. While these charges might be justified on a PC whose setup is traditionally more problematic, Macintosh set-up is so easy that anyone who can navigate Usenet can certainly plug in their own Mac. THE DEALER NEEDS TO SELL YOU A MAC MORE THAN YOU NEED TO BUY ONE (5.2) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Remember that the salesperson needs the sale more than you do. The more time a salesperson spends with you the more pressure they're under to justify that time to their sales manager by selling you something. Hemming and hawing over the price (especially if you haven't told the salesperson how much you expect to pay) can often lower it. You can ALWAYS get a lower price than advertised. Aside from the prices in this list a good idea of when a salesperson is genuinely giving you the lowest price can be had by noticing the level at which they have to check a price with their sales manager. HAVE A COMPETITOR'S AD HANDY (5.3) ----------------------------------- Nothing is more helpful in convincing salespeople to lower their prices than a competitor's published ad or written estimate showing a lower price. This works even if you have no intention of buying from the competitor in the first place (for instance because it's a mail order ad and you don't want to buy through the mail). Except on the cheapest Mac Classic systems you should ask that the salesperson beat the price by at least $50 and maybe as much as $300 on high end systems. Justify it on the grounds that you don't want to have to shuttle back and forth between dealers to keep getting a $10 drop in price every time. CASH ON DELIVERY (5.4) ----------------------- If you're buying at a dealership, don't pay a penny until the salesperson brings all pieces of what you've paid for out for you to see. While delivery is sometimes more convenient, it's a lot safer if you walk out the store with your computer. Too many disreputable dealers sell stock they don't have, especially of very popular items. If you must have the computer delivered to you, insist on a clause in the sales contract specifying that delivery must be made by a certain date and time or else the full purchase price shall be immediately refunded. The clause should also specify that delivery is the responsibility solely of the seller. It will normally be necessary to cross out (and initial the change) of a standard clause in the sales contract stating the opposite. For maximum safety insist that the sales manager also approve that change in the contract in writing. Dealers typically pay between 3-5% of the purchase price (including sales tax) to the credit card company for any purchase you make on a credit card. Since the margins they'll be getting on their sale to you are thin enough already, expect that they will pass the cost of a credit card on to you. If you intend to purchase your Macintosh on credit and you're not buying mail order, you're probably better off getting a bank loan or getting a cash advance on your credit card so that you can give the dealer cash (or a certified check.) Your interest charges shouldn't be any higher than if you paid with a credit card in the first place, (though there won't be any grace payment for repayment) and the loan or advance charges probably won't be as much as the dealer would raise prices for a credit sale. Of course if you're buying by mail you should definitely use a credit card despite any added expense. Since most mail order companies have higher volume and lower overhead than independent dealers, the price difference shouldn't be very far away from the cash price. Some credit cards offer extended warranties and theft protection on purchases made with the card. If yours does then the added protection may be worth the extra money for using a credit card, especially if you're buying an easily stolen or easily broken item like a Powerbook. THE SALES TAX GAME (5.5) ------------------------- In some sections of the U.S. a significant savings can be realized by crossing a city or state line in search of a more favorable sales tax rate. For instance in New York City sales tax is 8.25% while right across the George Washington Bridge in New Jersey it's 3.5% and a bit northerly in Westchester County it drops to 6.25%. Drive all the way down to Delaware and there's no sales tax at all. A New York City resident is supposed to pay New York City tax even on purchases made out of state; but it is perfectly legal to use the possibility of your going outside the city to buy your computer to convince a salesperson to lower their price. And in most other venues except New York and California a purchase made by mail from a company outside the state of the purchaser is non-taxable. LEASING (5.6) -------------- The short answer to this option is DON'T. If you're VERY strapped for capital think about it, but most commonly the lease payments over the term of the lease add up to as much as or even more than the cost of the system itself plus the interest on a loan to buy it. If you absolutely must lease try to keep the term as short as possible. Generally Mac power doubles every year while price comes down by about a third. You don't want to lock yourself into obsolete equipment. The most common lease term is two years, but with a little shopping around you can find one year leases. BE NICE TO YOUR SALESPERSON (5.7) ---------------------------------- This final tip ought to be obvious, but many people have a hard time grasping it. If your salesperson likes you, he or she will be much more amenable to giving you a good price. At the larger dealers that will give you the best prices (if you know how to ask) salespeople often don't care about low-end sales enough to do much hard bargaining, and will often decide how low they're willing to go based solely on how much they like a customer and what sort of mood they're in. (Of course if your salesperson just broke up with his boyfriend last night you're out of luck.) Not all stores will be able to offer you a rock bottom price. Please don't get angry about it if they can't. If your salesperson tells you that the price you're asking for is ridiculous, get their lowest price, thank them, and go somewhere else. ===================================== THE GRAY MARKET AND MAIL ORDER (6.0) ===================================== WHAT IS THE GRAY MARKET? (6.1) ------------------------------- Due to Apple's extreme aversion to authorizing mail order dealers, there are few if any authorized Apple mail-order dealers (unlike in the PC world ). A recent random phone survey of several mail order dealers advertising in MacUser and MacWorld found NO authorized Apple dealers. Some Performa dealers like Staples (1-800-333-3330) will sell their Performa configurations over the phone. Unauthorized "Gray Market" dealers take advantage of lower foreign prices in countries like Mexico by buying computers there and reselling them here, sometimes selling them to the end user for prices as low as other dealers can get their machines wholesale from Apple. They also buy excess inventory from authorized dealers at cost. The gray market dealers get product, and the authorized dealers get steeper discounts from Apple for ordering more machines. ARE GRAY MARKET MACS COVERED BY APPLE WARRANTIES? (6.2) -------------------------------------------------------- Gray market computers are still official Apple product manufactured in the same four factories that make the machines sold in the United States. The main caveat in the gray market is that the computer you buy may or may not be eligible for warranty repair by Apple. Whether an authorized Apple dealer will perform warranty service on a gray market Mac depends almost entirely on the authorized dealer you bring it to. You must make sure your gray market Mac has a valid, non-defaced Apple serial number to have any reasonable chance of getting warranty service. Some authorized dealers remove serial numbers before selling the Macs into the gray market so that Apple can't trace the product back to them. It is almost impossible to find an Apple dealer who will perform warranty service an a Mac without a valid serial number. In the end a gray market Mac's warranty is only as good as the company that sold it to you so make sure that the company you buy from is reliable in performing service. When you buy from an authorized dealer even if that dealer has a totally dishonest and incompetent service department, you can always bring it to their competitors for warranty service. In the gray market you're only promised service from the company you buy from. If that company goes out of business while they've got your computer in their repair shop, you may never see it again. It's also very inconvenient to have to ship your computer away by mail for service and then have it shipped back. DOES ANYONE KNOW A GOOD MAIL-ORDER COMPANY? (6.3) -------------------------------------------------- Many mail-order dealers advertise in the back pages of MacUser and MacWorld. Two that have to date seemed reasonably honest and reliable are Shreve Systems (1-800-227-3971) and MacFriends (1-800-331-1322). However their prices are not necessarily better than what you could get from an authorized dealer. Don't automatically assume mail-order prices are better. In many cases they're not. There are several steps you should take to protect yourself when buying Macs through the mail. First pay by credit card even if there's a surcharge for using a credit card. You should verify that the card will not be charged until the computer is shipped. If there is a problem with the shipment or if it fails to arrive, you can contact the credit card company to dispute the charge. This is a good idea even if you have had numerous good experiences with the company previously. Jasmine Technologies, a primarily mail order company, had an excellent reputation for fast, dependable service; but when it went bankrupt in 1990, many people who had paid in advance by check for hard drives were stranded without either a drive or their money. Those who had paid by credit card were able to get the charges removed by their credit card companies. Secondly ask a few questions before purchasing a Mac by mail. Keep a written record of who you talked to including time, dates and what was said. Some good questions are: 1. Is the equipment brand new? 2. Is the box factory-sealed? 3. Does it come with an Apple warranty? 4. Does it come with an Apple registration card? 5. Does it have a valid serial number? 6. What is your return policy? You may also want to verify with a local authorized dealer that the offered configuration is indeed one Apple manufactures. -- Elliotte Rusty Harold Department of Mathematics elharo@shock.njit.edu New Jersey Institute of Technology erh0362@tesla.njit.edu Newark NJ 07103 ..